Friends of the Rail Forum

What of the misc items lying between the locos?

Scrapping activities currently taking place at the Transnet Freight Rail's Millsite depot near Krugersdorp of historic railway equipment.

Whilst, theoretically, this particular equipment is surplus to and outside of the "national museum collection", its loss, apparently without warning or consultation, is a major concern to preservationists everywhere. It has been alleged that a legal tender for this scrapping was possibly not issued. Furthermore, for certain no opportunity was given to the steam preservation organizations to first 'harvest' much-needed parts off these scrap locos to enable them to ensure that their own preserved equipment has sufficient in the way of spares for the longer term future. It is a fact that most of this equipment, through years of unbelievable neglect, vandalism and theft, is now no longer economically salvable and that as assets of Transnet, they are free to do whatever they wish to recover their scrap value. It is however a pity that the equipment was allowed to get into this condition in the first place. It is also a fact that preservation and restoration of railway equipment demands pots of money and that that this stuff was never going to earn its keep which means that, barring a miracle, it would eventually have been condemned to death anyway despite the recent local and international growth of the heritage railway 'industry'.

This exercise, together with the imminent forced closure of Transnet's heritage and museum wing (Transnet Foundation - Heritage Preservation, TFHP and, unless it can be saved, the George Railway Museum and the Outeniqua Tjoe-Choo), brings the few remaining examples in the so-called "national collection" (originally put together with immense pride, care and foresight by the old SAR and SATS) one step closer to being totally destroyed, and no longer available to future generations of South Africans and tourists -- for ever. This, in the mind of many historical and railway preservation enthusiasts, is wanton destruction by a large corporation that, apart from some very helpful and caring individuals, is single-mindedly pursuing revitalization and profit at the expense of its other activities. It has lost much semblance of its public community face, caring little about the huge role that its former massive transport infrastructure played in the development and history (both good and bad) of South Africa. It also seems that it has little care for those (individuals and clubs – like Friends of the Rail) that are willing to put huge amounts of time, money and effort into trying to preserve such heritage and keep it alive for the future generations of South Africans, tourists and researchers of all backgrounds.
Steve G Appleton

Thank you so much for copying me on this, it really does help if all of us that genuinely care for our heritage assets say their say.

We at Reefsteamers heard that the scrappers had started their to our surprise and so I promptly visited Millsite along with Andrew King on Sunday so we could get an idea of what was going on there. They have apparently been there for over a month already? It was quite shocking though to see how some of the old wooden bodied coaches have been literally smashed up so that the wood could be removed and the frames cut up. The only full set of 12AR wheels that were still in a wagon below at the coal stage have also been cut to our utmost disgust.
Reefsteamers have tried to apply for these wheel for the last few years and nobody was able to authorise their removal by us and now it's once again too late.

Susan Mabie has however assured us at SIA that she will investigate this matter and see that the cutting is being done according to the original scrap tender and that no locomotives or other assets that are not on the list will be touched. We await her reply to us at the soonest.

Br,
Shaun Ackerman
Reefsteamers Association for Steam in Action - South Africa

Nerina Skuy wrote:Hi Richard (Niven),
You are obviously not (and never have been) a member of
HRASA otherwise there is no way that you would have made a statement that
is so far from the truth to be considered extremely libellous and I hope is
held in a very seriously light. It is common knowledge among ALL the
members of HRASA that those "high up" (according to you), and whom I presume you
mean the directors, who have been negotiating with TFHP and Transnet for the
past three years have done so completely at their own expense and no recompense
except the satisfaction of not allowing the system to "swallow" heritage rail
and the "preserve" our rail heritage at all costs. As the National Secretary and
Treasurer of HRASA I wish to inform you and anyone else that may actually
believe you that although the direct expenses (such as airfare, portion of cell
and telephone) are paid the for Chairman, he pays for any other expenses (such
as journeys to and from airport, local
travel around his home city, etc). Another fact, he never uses
accommodation if he can bunk with family or friends, and thus accommodation is
seldom paid for, and will evitably set up 3-4 other HRASA appointments in one
trip. Oh yes, another fact, for all the time he spends away on HRASA business
and is not running his own and earning a salary - he is not
recompensed. Now, I wonder how many people would make this type of
commitment or sacrifice - obviously not the likes of you,  because if you
did you would put YOUR money where you mouth is and not stick you nose in (and
make statements about)  business you know nothing about.
 
And, I would also like to add that HRASA has a number of sub-committees with
members of these paying their way while undertaking assigments on behalf of ALL
HRASA members. They pay their own airfares, accommodation and other
expenses to get to meetings (anywhere in South Africa) whilst sacrificing
personal and business time and commitments.
 
Richard, you owe ALL of HRASA an apology for your statement and a public
retraction. If you don't I guess its because you judge people by your standards
and given half the time of day is this what you would do?
 
Nerina Skuy
 

Nerina wrote:Dylan,
I told you more than a year ago that you need to listen more and talk less and
maybe you'll learn something. However, you seem to be intent on operating by
tantrum and have continued to confirm that in spite of the limited knowledge you
have acquired (and it is very limited because you do not listen so good!) you
are the type of person who likes to feed a scrap - whether its right or not,
whether its based on truth, lies or innuendo - just because you want to be
heard!
 
I suggest you take a good hard look at this industry and see the people
who have succeeded - what have you achieved that you can stand in judgement
of them?
 
Rail heritage does not need the likes of you (or you Nathan) who look to take
people down or out instead of looking for ways to support or help for the good
of all. Sarky comments, unfounded criticisms and derogarory statements are
not help? If anyone needs to look at his own house as to motive it is you
(Dylan) - you know exactly what I mean. I call it like it is - you know that -
and I think you need to take stock and examine your motives in the comments you
are making.
 
Nerina
 

Nerina wrote:Would you like a list of all the meetings we have attended over the past three
years? Do you think we went to those meetings for personal gain? Have you no
understanding that when you agree to confidentiality that you are professionally
expected to abide by that agreement. Why have you not made all these noises
before now? And yes, I am loyal, to what I have been mandated and tasked to
do by HRASA members - who have ALL been kept informed of the ongoing
negotiations and when necessary have given their input. Do I smell some
"professional" jealousy/envy? If you think you could have done a better job and
had so little faith in HRASA (which by the way comprises all the heritage
operators) why did you and the likes of you not start your own move???? Lots of
whys - I would like to see some REAL answers. 
Nerina

Dylan wrote:Doesn't answer the question of why heritage locos are being cut at Millsite?!!

Nathan wrote:Nerina, rail heritage needs the support of all people who are interested in
it. By the way, you are welcome to make your comments to me personally too.
My details can be obtained from records available.

John A wrote:"Rail heritage does not need the likes of you (or you Nathan) ..."

Of all the people involved in preserving heritage steam in South
Africa over the last few decades Nathan must surely be a contender for
the top ten. I think it is rather silly to suggest we don't need the
chairman of one of the most active steam clubs in the country which
runs forty or fifty steam trains a year and is just about to put back
on the main line yet another loco which has been standing rusting for
many years (15F no 3117).

In fact we need everyone. But we also need information, and it seems
to me a lot of the emotion is generated simply because HRASA is not
sharing information with its members (and even with some of its
Directors) - and this is a complaint I've heard for years, not just
around this current Millsite situation. Polite requests by many
interested people are met with silence, or with a defensive rant. Even
if the news is bad news, even if it is "no news", share it - that's
what people are asking for.

Errol Ashwell wrote:I was waiting for this kind of response from somebody in HRASA: In other
words a rather pathetic attempt at a politician's answer. You know the
stuff: When asked a direct, but awkward question, just go ranting off in a
different direction, blaming everyone else, and hoping that the original
question is forgotten!

All I can distil from the vitriolic response from Nerina Skuy is that the
chairman and committee members of HRASA apparently attend a lot of meetings.
Good for them, but so what?

What rail heritage in South Africa needs is results. Richard, Nathan, I and
many others are doing what we can. SIA is collectively doing a lot. The
real danger is that HRASA is supposedly representing all the heritage
organisations - and is therefore being left to represent them - but no
results are evident. Even more dangerous is Transnet's perception that when
they talk to HRASA, they are talking to the single representative of SA
heritage organisations, and that they therefore do not have to talk to
anyone else.

So, back to the real question: "On behalf of all the people, all over the
world, interested in preserving South Africa's heritage as well as promoting
heritage tourism, what has HRASA done to promote the preservation of any
recently destroyed heritage assets? We hear about 'high level discussions
behind the scenes' (and apparently lots of meetings) but there is no obvious
outcome. Steam cranes have gone, Humewood Road is going, now the
locomotives at Millsite. And HRASA is doing what?..."

On behalf of all very concerned, active, heritage preservationists, a
straight answer from HRASA would be much appreciated.

Axe looms over
historic trains
OUT OF STEAM: A once-mighty locomotive might be destined for the scrap heap Picture: RICHARD STEVENS

KATLEGO MOENG
SOUTH Africa is on the fast track to losing part of its locomotive heritage. Transnet has — to the dismay of the Heritage Railway Association SA — decided to scrap prized heritage steam locomotives next month. In a letter dated May 15, Transnet gave the heritage association until today to select the locomotives and coaches it wished to keep, either for preservation and restoration or for spare parts.
Rail historians said two weeks was not enough time to locate all the historical trains around the country. Shaun Ackerman of Reefsteamers Association, which champions rail tourism and steam locomotive preservation, said Transnet told them the trains were beyond repair and an “eyesore”, and should be scrapped. “The ultimatum they have given us is not reasonable in terms of time and resources,” said Ackerman.
The groups were further incensed because some trains marked for restoration had ended up at the Millsite train depot in Krugersdorp and were being hacked to pieces. Ackerman and Andrew King, of another heritage preservation group, Steam in Action, visited the depot and were shocked to see old wooden-bodied coaches had been smashed up so the
wood could be removed.
Transnet was not available for comment at the time of going to press.